Max WHP from only 91 octane?

[razorlab]

I feel bad for the people there. Pain in the ass tbh.

Lots of E85 though. I ran only E85 in all my cars for the last 10 years I was there.

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[Awales74]

As you increase power by adding oxygen and fuel, you increase heat and run into knock. Modern cars retard the timing, robbing power, to protect you from destroying engine. You have to do something about this to take advantage of any more mods than just a DP and a small increase to boost (which the OEM Turbo is capable of) you have to solve the fueling problem. Meth, eXX blends, e85, octane boosters, etc.. Something to allow the car to use a more optimal timing OR the car will rob you of the increased power to protect itself. Clever bastards

Thus your limit is the mid 400s with some simple bolt ons and a tune. Search threads on this forum that outline guys testing out new hybrid turbos. They end at the mid 400s, install a meth kit, and then talk about how awesome the turbo is

 

[razorlab]

As you increase power by adding oxygen and fuel, you increase heat and run into knock. Modern cars retard the timing, robbing power, to protect you from destroying engine. You have to do something about this to take advantage of any more mods than just a DP and a small increase to boost (which the OEM Turbo is capable of) you have to solve the fueling problem. Meth, eXX blends, e85, octane boosters, etc.. Something to allow the car to use a more optimal timing OR the car will rob you of the increased power to protect itself. Clever bastards

Thus your limit is the mid 400s with some simple bolt ons and a tune. Search threads on this forum that outline guys testing out new hybrid turbos. They end at the mid 400s, install a meth kit, and then talk about how awesome the turbo is

Also depends on if it's a 2020 or a 2021+

2020 has a higher CR (11:1 vs 10.2:1) so it will be more sensitive to timing advancement and mo' boost with less octane.

 

[Tacoma714]

Yeah I just don't want to be able to use regular pump gas and not have to worry about finding meth.

So it looks like full bolt ons (exhaust, downpipe, chargepipe) at the bare minimum with a tune. And if I really want to make sure I hit 500whp, a turbo upgrade and port injection (what part do I get for this??).

I also plan to be tracking this so I want reliable 500whp and cooling. Sounds like I should get an intake manifold?

Are you worried about using E85?

 

[KahnBB6]

There are two former Unocal 76 stations near Los Angeles (of of them is in Pasadena) that will sell you VP100 100 octane unleaded race fuel right from the pump and completely street legal. No major fuel system change needed to use it. It's laughably expensive though!

The last time I put a mere four gallons of it into my SC300's gas tank just to get the 91 octane in there bumped up to a 93 rating it was $10/gal. It's definitely higher per gallon now.

It's apples to oranges but I know that California's 91 octane fuel limits my 2JZ-GTE's fuel system and stock turbos to about 15-16 psi max to be on the safe side. That's not even quite "BPU" level for that engine so it's quite limiting for tuning.

But... someone mentioned 430whp (for the B58D) and given the limitations there a +50whp safely tuned increase isn't bad over the stock unadvertised power rating.

 

[damage]

Are you worried about using E85?

I just don't want to deal with trying to find it or store it. I just want to be able to get regular old gas at any station, any time.

 

[BMWAF]

I just don't want to deal with trying to find it or store it. I just want to be able to get regular old gas at any station, any time.

This. We have 93 everywhere here (we call it 98 just to be confusing) but I'm with you: I just want to fuel up at the pump without worrying about it.

 

[FLtrackdays]

I just don't want to deal with trying to find it or store it. I just want to be able to get regular old gas at any station, any time.

This must be why people are leaving CA in droves…. Wonder what the reason was to get rid of all 93 in the 1st place? I know just about anything I purchase has a legal sticker that says if you live it California it may harm you.


*(just having fun about those CA disclaimers & semi-serious question about the octane) *

 

[Johnny Utah]

Rather than start rattling off numbers and scenarios, I'm going to link you to the holy grail of threads in our MKV forum. Follow this and you will be just fine. Thank me later.

MKV Forum Routes To Big Power.

You are doing God’s work with this post. Thank you sir!

 

[razorlab]

This must be why people are leaving CA in droves…. Wonder what the reason was to get rid of all 93 in the 1st place? I know just about anything I purchase has a legal sticker that says if you live it California it may harm you.

Huh? They have only had 91 for over 20 years. It was 92 before that. Most people in California could care less about fuel octane. It’s not just California, it’s other west coast states as well. You Florida guys just love to cherry pick and hate on California. It’s so boring.

That red mist has to be exhausting.

 

[Tacoma714]

This must be why people are leaving CA in droves…. Wonder what the reason was to get rid of all 93 in the 1st place? I know just about anything I purchase has a legal sticker that says if you live it California it may harm you.

Jerry Brown signed a bill years ago when he was governor banning 93 octane. I'm surprised E85 hasn't been banned here in California. This damn state is doing everything it can to ruin it for us enthusiasts, but it's also the fault of all the street takeover kids with their Chargers, Challengers and Mustangs. It's put all enthusiasts in a box and labeled the same. Not to get off topic, but I'm stock and got pulled over for my ARK exhaust just because the burnt blue tips. California was once the capital of car culture.

 

[razorlab]

Jerry Brown signed a bill years ago when he was governor banning 93 octane.

California hasn't had 93 for decades. What bill are you talking about?

92 octane in some locations until 2001. Then 91 since. That is 23 years ago.

 

[Tacoma714]

California hasn't had 93 for decades. What bill are you talking about?

92 octane in some locations until 2001. Then 91 since. That is 23 years ago.

I think I read the 2001 date you are referencing. Maybe I got my names and people/legislators confused nonetheless I wish we had it California. E85 is our best option in California.

 

[razorlab]

I think I read the 2001 date you are referencing. Maybe I got my names and people/legislators involved nonetheless I wish we had it California. E85 is our best option in California.

Yup, I ran E85 for the last 10-12 years I was in California.

 

[KahnBB6]

91 octane in California doesn't have to do with 93 being specifically "banned" there. California premium fuel had a 92 octane rating until 2001.

MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether... which is an octane booster but also a carginogen that can affect ground water) was being phased out at that time and alternative additives to the gasoline partly resulted in the one point lower maximum octane rating.

The other reason California only had 92 octane fuel before then has to do with the supply of cream of the crop crude oil needed to make premium gasoline being stretched thinner due to higher average demand (for premium fuel) in the region.

When crude oil gets refined, the lowest layer which is good enough for 87 fuel is far more plentiful than upper layers which can make 89 or 91-94 premium. California's demand for premium stretches thin that which could otherwise have a higher octane rating if there were less demand.

I've heard of 94 octane premium at the pump being a thing in some northeast states but I never see it in Florida. 93 is available in most or all of the southeast states. Whenever I drive completely out of Texas while going west most of the gas stations only offer 92 octane. It goes as low as 90 octane in high elevation areas.

Around the same 2001 timeframe that California 91 octane was becoming a thing the Unocal 76 company... which has (or had) exclusive patents for what used to allow them to sell their own unique high octane premium fuel... wasn't able to incentivize their stations carrying their unique high(er) octane premium blend.

Then when things got tough for Unocal and the other fuel corporations didn't want to pay the licensing fees to use the special Unocal high octane process to produce it on their own.

The Unocal 76 subject is more complicated than that but it's very old news and at the end of the day that process isn't something they can use themselves any longer after the trouble the company had. So there does exist at least one method to offer at least 92 octane gas again in California... but no one is going to pay to use it and the rights holder can't afford to any longer on their own.

All of that has been my understanding when I read into it several years ago.

Here's a very old 2001 forum article on then-new Cali 91 octane:

https://www.z06vette.com/threads/76-gas-in-ca-now-91-octane.2698/

I once found a VERY comprehensive article on this subject which went into great blow by blow detail of how things changed. If I can find it I will post it in the thread.

VP Racing Fuels offering their 100 octane unleaded street legal fuel is nice but generally cost prohibitive for all but a few.

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