Clutch Slipping on stock A91 MT...

[3TMagnetMan]

I remember doing these mods on my Older BMW M3s before maybe the MT supra is the same.

Sponsored

 

[GRSupraPR]

Is your car stock power?

Yes…
E
S
.
.
.

 

[lucky phil]

So much misinformation. The rev matching function is going to have zero to do with clutch failure, it's simply a throttle blipper that can calculate and apply exactly what revs you need to achieve for the particular gear you're going to select. It has no control over the clutch itself. As for the "I know how to heal and toe so it's for people that are lazy or can't drive" well really? As I remarked in another post race drivers do it if they need to depending on the particular race regulations and car but they are smashing the brakes at the time so a stab on the throttle is done from a pretty solid pivot point, the pedals are bespoke and arranged for their particular feet and body position and it's not a subtle thing. It's smash the brake pedal and stab the throttle. Try that on the road when your braking moderately, pretty much impossible. You might get it done really nice 1 downshift in 8. As for the "cant drive" thing well you may as well say the same about a syncros gearbox. Same issue. So, What people that use a synchromesh gearbox are too lazy to learn how to double clutch and rev match and proper drives should all be driving old crash gearboxes? Ridiculous. The purpose of rev matching is so the driver can concentrate on the more important and critical things about the driving like getting the braking and corner entry right and anything that helps you out there is far more important than some ham fisted attempt at heal and toeing on a road car.
The clutch restrictor is another overstatement and has zero to do with clutch failures. It's simply a restrictor in the line to make the clutch less sensitive than it is without the restrictor. There's a practical limit to how small you can physically make the clutch hydraulic line and the std line is bigger than is actually needed. The restrictor just makes the clutch a little easier to modulate for the average owner. By all means remove the restrictor but it won't make any difference to the average user or the clutch itself and unless you like to side step the clutch pedal on launching from the lights or are tracking the car and want every last nuance with regards to clutch operation and feel then it won't be of any utility to you. Some people here are like a blind man groping around in a strange room looking for something with regards to this issue. If indeed it's an issue at all. and if it actually is it will take at least 12 months to find out the answer and another 6 months to get a resolution from Toyota if it is going on my past experience of such things. Personally at the moment it seems to me to be more smoke than fire. Time will tell but don't panic.

Phil

 

[Supra_UK_]

So much misinformation. The rev matching function is going to have zero to do with clutch failure, it's simply a throttle blipper that can calculate and apply exactly what revs you need to achieve for the particular gear you're going to select. It has no control over the clutch itself. As for the "I know how to heal and toe so it's for people that are lazy or can't drive" well really? As I remarked in another post race drivers do it if they need to depending on the particular race regulations and car but they are smashing the brakes at the time so a stab on the throttle is done from a pretty solid pivot point, the pedals are bespoke and arranged for their particular feet and body position and it's not a subtle thing. It's smash the brake pedal and stab the throttle. Try that on the road when your braking moderately, pretty much impossible. You might get it done really nice 1 downshift in 8. As for the "cant drive" thing well you may as well say the same about a syncros gearbox. Same issue. So, What people that use a synchromesh gearbox are too lazy to learn how to double clutch and rev match and proper drives should all be driving old crash gearboxes? Ridiculous. The purpose of rev matching is so the driver can concentrate on the more important and critical things about the driving like getting the braking and corner entry right and anything that helps you out there is far more important than some ham fisted attempt at heal and toeing on a road car.
The clutch restrictor is another overstatement and has zero to do with clutch failures. It's simply a restrictor in the line to make the clutch less sensitive than it is without the restrictor. There's a practical limit to how small you can physically make the clutch hydraulic line and the std line is bigger than is actually needed. The restrictor just makes the clutch a little easier to modulate for the average owner. By all means remove the restrictor but it won't make any difference to the average user or the clutch itself and unless you like to side step the clutch pedal on launching from the lights or are tracking the car and want every last nuance with regards to clutch operation and feel then it won't be of any utility to you. Some people here are like a blind man groping around in a strange room looking for something with regards to this issue. If indeed it's an issue at all. and if it actually is it will take at least 12 months to find out the answer and another 6 months to get a resolution from Toyota if it is going on my past experience of such things. Personally at the moment it seems to me to be more smoke than fire. Time will tell but don't panic.

Phil

Great post thanks for sharing

 

[puppers]

I' m at 5300 on my A91MT and I don't think I've had issues. I've had moments where I feel like the pull isn't as strong, but it's never sounded like a slipping clutch yet. Plenty of redline pulls, but no track or launch. Hmm.

 

[Supra_UK_]

My report on MT though mine is UK spec so 335bhp/500nm - 1200 miles, no slipping or any issues, just finished breaking in engine and did and oil and filter change, gonna start exploring red line area for first time today on a sunny sunday.

 

[Foogazzi]

I am 2k into my MT....... no issue just my own faults with the accelerator and a blinking traction lights.

I have been reading that past 10 pages of "thoughts and opinions" My experience with BMW has greatly been on S1kRR (BMW motorcycle) at the racetrack. the traction control on the moto's is ridiculous, almost violent at times. Depending on the throttle setting (ie. rain, sport,race) the intervention of traction control varies from subtle to scary. The initial feeling is complete power failure and immediately back to plaid.

I am curios if the same interventions from traction control are simulating the sensation the clutch is "slipping". Is TCS off when this has occurred? The Supra responds differently when TCS is completely off. No interventions.

Anywho, Call me idiot. Thinking outside the box. ZF makes a strong product. and I believe Toyota has built a product around a "stock" platform.

 

[RenRed2]

Phil

Phil nice photo there. Very nice. Is that you riding?

 

[6SPDA91]

Guys and gals let's take a second to regroup here. I mentioned this in GR's thread, but this is a great place for us to share information, but we have to base it on fact not opinion.

Data is what helps us build theories and answers. Everything else is just speculation. If we look at things like build date, country having issues, stock vs tuned, was the break in followed prowling and many other things that have empirical data values we can start to see a trend.

For instance, one thing that seems to have popped up is that @GRSupraPR had noticed many of the issues are with other cars in PR. The US cars that are having issues, beside @NitroYellowMKV, really are self inflicted and sometimes corrected.

I'm all about shit posting and having fun (that's what makes this community great), but if we're going to try and make a realistic determination as to where the platform has a serious problem, we need something tangible that can be used to build a case. Who knows, it could be the real world data needed to help Toyota put together a fix if it's needed. They could find that it's an issue with settings at the factory, etc. But NONE of that can really be determined if we don't have really information to back out up.

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[MoTeC_R]

Ya I know there are a few MT’s there but 4-5 already experiencing issues? I’m still pretty positive my issue isn’t the clutch itself, not to sound pompous but I know how to drive a stick and not roast the clutch and it’s never been dumped or even tracked yet, no launches at all. This issue is a slave cylinder or pressure plate pivot pin issue forsure. Or electronic

The bad part of this situation is that Toyota won’t let a dealer tear one down to evaluate and ensure there isn’t a larger issue that could be resolved before it potentially becomes something more (even negative word of mouth - even if untrue is bad for company reputation). Toyota should be interested in the fact there’s been at least a couple MT issues reported already and want to resolve that possibility ASAP.

 

[RyanA90]

Can we just conclude PR either doesn't know how drive Manuel or they just love to no lift shift every single gear? lol

Joking aside like what @6SPDA91 mentioned it can be an isolated thing.

Clutch issues in PR
Wheel Locks in Canada

 

[STi_to_GRzupra]

I' m at 5300 on my A91MT and I don't think I've had issues. I've had moments where I feel like the pull isn't as strong, but it's never sounded like a slipping clutch yet. Plenty of redline pulls, but no track or launch. Hmm.

I do fell sometimes 2-3 gear pull be inconsistent.

 

[puckshaw]

So much misinformation. The rev matching function is going to have zero to do with clutch failure, it's simply a throttle blipper that can calculate and apply exactly what revs you need to achieve for the particular gear you're going to select. It has no control over the clutch itself. As for the "I know how to heal and toe so it's for people that are lazy or can't drive" well really? As I remarked in another post race drivers do it if they need to depending on the particular race regulations and car but they are smashing the brakes at the time so a stab on the throttle is done from a pretty solid pivot point, the pedals are bespoke and arranged for their particular feet and body position and it's not a subtle thing. It's smash the brake pedal and stab the throttle. Try that on the road when your braking moderately, pretty much impossible. You might get it done really nice 1 downshift in 8. As for the "cant drive" thing well you may as well say the same about a syncros gearbox. Same issue. So, What people that use a synchromesh gearbox are too lazy to learn how to double clutch and rev match and proper drives should all be driving old crash gearboxes? Ridiculous. The purpose of rev matching is so the driver can concentrate on the more important and critical things about the driving like getting the braking and corner entry right and anything that helps you out there is far more important than some ham fisted attempt at heal and toeing on a road car.
The clutch restrictor is another overstatement and has zero to do with clutch failures. It's simply a restrictor in the line to make the clutch less sensitive than it is without the restrictor. There's a practical limit to how small you can physically make the clutch hydraulic line and the std line is bigger than is actually needed. The restrictor just makes the clutch a little easier to modulate for the average owner. By all means remove the restrictor but it won't make any difference to the average user or the clutch itself and unless you like to side step the clutch pedal on launching from the lights or are tracking the car and want every last nuance with regards to clutch operation and feel then it won't be of any utility to you. Some people here are like a blind man groping around in a strange room looking for something with regards to this issue. If indeed it's an issue at all. and if it actually is it will take at least 12 months to find out the answer and another 6 months to get a resolution from Toyota if it is going on my past experience of such things. Personally at the moment it seems to me to be more smoke than fire. Time will tell but don't panic.

Phil

Thank you. Could not have said it any better. It's hard to take some of these people seriously with some of these posts. People love to jump to conclusions and freak out about stuff before the facts come out. I’m personally not concerned at this point but will be waiting for more information to come out. It’s hard for me to imagine what sort of design flaw would make a clutch burn out prematurely when driven correctly. So I'm inclined to believe something else is at play here in the clutch system if there is an issue at all beyond these few isolated cars.

So far we have Nitro with an issue that sounds like a different issue than the PR guy. We also don't have any first hand information about the details of the other PR cars that are having issues. Talk about selling the car and moving to a new platform is a massive overreaction at this point with the limited info.

 

[NitroYellowMKV]

Thank you. Could not have said it any better. It's hard to take some of these people seriously with some of these posts. People love to jump to conclusions and freak out about stuff before the facts come out. I’m personally not concerned at this point but will be waiting for more information to come out. It’s hard for me to imagine what sort of design flaw would make a clutch burn out prematurely when driven correctly. So I'm inclined to believe something else is at play here in the clutch system if there is an issue at all beyond these few isolated cars.

So far we have Nitro with an issue that sounds like a different issue than the PR guy. We also don't have any first hand information about the details of the other PR cars that are having issues. Talk about selling the car and moving to a new platform is a massive overreaction at this point with the limited info.

I 100% think my problem is isolated and not even clutch related but more so slave cylinder or pressure plate, but yes what Phil said I agree with 100%, 99.99 of the time I have auto rev match on, it is quicker and smoother then I ever will be and It makes me sound like I know what I am doing, my distain for the car and comments about selling are partially hyperbole and exaggerated but also more so due to the fact that I was told they wont investigate my issue without paying a tear down fee of thousands of dollars, something I feel is ridiculous on a 3k mile stock car, especially since I first complained about this at 1k miles and that is on record, next they told me that if I do things on my own with disassembly and or install an aftermarket clutch to remedy the possible issue, my whole powertrain/drivetrain warranty will be subsequently voided, a catch 22 as I specifically bought an MT to enjoy and keep mechanically stock as I am entering law school soon as well other life changes where I no longer feel comfortable having the risk of a $10,000 bill if something serious fails, with my fbo 2020 I modified and tuned it knowing that risk was there and ready to "pay to play" but a majority of the reason I went to this 23 was to have a nice factory fresh warranty incase anything happened. Now my option are as follows : pay out of pocket and put an upgraded clutch in hopes it fixes my issue, one that I don't even think has to do with the clutch, and then void the warranty on my brand new car, Pay a tear down fee and "hope" that the FST finds an issue he deems as a parts defects, a very subjective and difficult process that risks thousands of dollars on my end, drive with the car until it eventually fully fails and hope it happens before 12k miles, and even then still risk them fighting me on the repair. It puts a very sour taste in my mouth as I feel like no matter what, I am getting screwed one way or another.

 

[6SPDA91]

I 100% think my problem is isolated and not even clutch related but more so slave cylinder or pressure plate, but yes what Phil said I agree with 100%, 99.99 of the time I have auto rev match on, it is quicker and smoother then I ever will be and It makes me sound like I know what I am doing, my distain for the car and comments about selling are partially hyperbole and exaggerated but also more so due to the fact that I was told they wont investigate my issue without paying a tear down fee of thousands of dollars, something I feel is ridiculous on a 3k mile stock car, especially since I first complained about this at 1k miles and that is on record, next they told me that if I do things on my own with disassembly and or install an aftermarket clutch to remedy the possible issue, my whole powertrain/drivetrain warranty will be subsequently voided, a catch 22 as I specifically bought an MT to enjoy and keep mechanically stock as I am entering law school soon as well other life changes where I no longer feel comfortable having the risk of a $10,000 bill if something serious fails, with my fbo 2020 I modified and tuned it knowing that risk was there and ready to "pay to play" but a majority of the reason I went to this 23 was to have a nice factory fresh warranty incase anything happened. Now my option are as follows : pay out of pocket and put an upgraded clutch in hopes it fixes my issue, one that I don't even think has to do with the clutch, and then void the warranty on my brand new car, Pay a tear down fee and "hope" that the FST finds an issue he deems as a parts defects, a very subjective and difficult process that risks thousands of dollars on my end, drive with the car until it eventually fully fails and hope it happens before 12k miles, and even then still risk them fighting me on the repair. It puts a very sour taste in my mouth as I feel like no matter what, I am getting screwed one way or another.

I know you're thorough, but have you tried contacting corporate directly? I can't remember if you had done that already or not.

They might be able to waive the teardown fee, especially if you have it on record and documented with the dealership.

I hope you don't wind up super sour and stick with us. You've been a great resource and it would be sad to see you go over something out of your control.

Sponsored