Race Tracking Your Supra - Information exchange

[Rob_SER]

anybody with feedback on Endless MX72 Plus? Read all the threads i could find, but I have not found much first hand experience

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[tomfree]

Almost harder to get than Club Racers. Last time I checked I was given a six month ETA.

Evasive told me 3-month backorder on the ClubRacers yesterday. They offered the Pmu HC+ as an alternative that is in stock. It looks like the HC+ has the same heat tolerance as the Club Racer (800 deg C), but the friction coefficient is different - more streetable and better cold bite. They are marketed as a street/track pad. I don't really feel like being the guinea pig to see how these work on track.

I price checked CSG, and they're even more expensive now than when I bought mine in early '23. It was outrageous before...

 

[Rob_SER]

Evasive told me 3-month backorder on the ClubRacers yesterday. They offered the Pmu HC+ as an alternative that is in stock. It looks like the HC+ has the same heat tolerance as the Club Racer (800 deg C), but the friction coefficient is different - more streetable and better cold bite. They are marketed as a street/track pad. I don't really feel like being the guinea pig to see how these work on track.

I price checked CSG, and they're even more expensive now than when I bought mine in early '23. It was outrageous before...

They actually seem like a more agressive pad and are more expensive as well. The Club racer pad is also marketed as a street/track pad

I might try them out and be the guinea pig for us all

 

[tomfree]

Edit...throwing in CSG for comparison
*****
Some data points so I'm not working off of memory:

PMu Club Racer friction compound:
Temperature Range: 200-800ºC (392-1472ºF)
Friction Coefficient: ~0.45-0.59

PMu HC+ friction compound:
Temperature Range: 0-800ºC (32-1472ºF)
Friction Coefficient: ~0.43-0.58

CSG C21 friction compound:
Temperature Range: 380-950ºC
Friction Coefficient: ~0.42-0.48

Hmmm...this makes a compelling argument for the HC+. Not that I care much about cold performance, but it does look to be more streetable, and provides almost the same friction coefficient as the club racer.

I know @razorlab did a nice writeup here at some point about CoF for race pads.

 

[Traxion]

Man I am stuck need something for the summer. Maybe another Stock set errr

I'm sitting on a fresh set of stock front/rear pads I'll probably never use that I can sell for $220 shipped if you get desperate. Should be a good discount off what you can find online. SOLD

I ended up the the same situation as you and basically had Club Racers on order for 4 months and needed something right away and ordered this set. Then the Club Racers showed up the same week the stock ones did. Now I'm keeping an extra set of Club Racers on hand with one on order here on out so I don't run out again.

 

[kyle9]

Edit...throwing in CSG for comparison
*****
Some data points so I'm not working off of memory:

PMu Club Racer friction compound:
Temperature Range: 200-800ºC (392-1472ºF)
Friction Coefficient: ~0.45-0.59

PMu HC+ friction compound:
Temperature Range: 0-800ºC (32-1472ºF)
Friction Coefficient: ~0.43-0.58

CSG C21 friction compound:
Temperature Range: 380-950ºC
Friction Coefficient: ~0.42-0.48

Hmmm...this makes a compelling argument for the HC+. Not that I care much about cold performance, but it does look to be more streetable, and provides almost the same friction coefficient as the club racer.

I know @razorlab did a nice writeup here at some point about CoF for race pads.

Don’t run HC+ on a track car. Think of those as “oem+” pads that you would use in the same scenario as oem pads.

yeah it’s okay if you’re a first timer at HPDE and you’re slow and street tires, but if you put those on a track car they will melt.

 

[tomfree]

Don’t run HC+ on a track car. Think of those as “oem+” pads that you would use in the same scenario as oem pads.

yeah it’s okay if you’re a first timer at HPDE and you’re slow and street tires, but if you put those on a track car they will melt.

Well...I'm not fast...but I'm not exactly a first time HPDE'r either. Sounds like a Hawk HPS/HP+.

 

[Evolution]

I still plan on swapping out to my Hawk DTC 60/30 combo since my PMUs are done. I have another set of the PMU on the shelf but I have a feeling they are going to crumble like the last set since I am a bit hard on brakes. If I dont like them, at least I have a set of PMU to fall back on.

For the info stuff -

DTC 60 (Front)
400-1600 F operating temperatures
700-1100 F optimal temperature range
Coefficient .55-.62

DTC 30 (rear)
100-1200 F operating temperatures
100-800 F optimal temperature range
Coefficient .27-.51

Interesting to note as well, Hawk says their pads dont work with high carbon rotors. They only like normal iron/metal rotors.

 

[Ryan T]

I’m on dtc 60/30. Thinking about putting hawk hp street 5.0 on the front for daily and swap when I do a track day. Any thoughts? I have tons of contingency coupons for hawk is why I’m on them. Free pads. lol.

 

[razorlab]

Edit...throwing in CSG for comparison
*****
Some data points so I'm not working off of memory:

PMu Club Racer friction compound:
Temperature Range: 200-800ºC (392-1472ºF)
Friction Coefficient: ~0.45-0.59

PMu HC+ friction compound:
Temperature Range: 0-800ºC (32-1472ºF)
Friction Coefficient: ~0.43-0.58

CSG C21 friction compound:
Temperature Range: 380-950ºC
Friction Coefficient: ~0.42-0.48

Hmmm...this makes a compelling argument for the HC+. Not that I care much about cold performance, but it does look to be more streetable, and provides almost the same friction coefficient as the club racer.

I know @razorlab did a nice writeup here at some point about CoF for race pads.

Don’t run HC+ on track unless you like not being able to stop.

I would take a lot of the published numbers from manufacturers with a grain of salt. Great example are the CSG C21 friction co numbers. They are total bullshit. Anyone that has used those pads knows they aren’t 0.48. More like starting at 0.58, if not higher. They eat rotors up big time and are light switches. Yes, they even upped the price to $590, from the already insanity price they were before.

 

[Rob_SER]

I'm sitting on a fresh set of stock front/rear pads I'll probably never use that I can sell for $220 shipped if you get desperate. Should be a good discount off what you can find online.

I ended up the the same situation as you and basically had Club Racers on order for 4 months and needed something right away and ordered this set. Then the Club Racers showed up the same week the stock ones did. Now I'm keeping an extra set of Club Racers on hand with one on order here on out so I don't run out again.

that's really the best option, always have a set of rotors and pads ready so you are never caught out.

Don’t run HC+ on track unless you like not being able to stop.

I would take a lot of the published numbers from manufacturers with a grain of salt. Great example are the CSG C21 friction co numbers. They are total bullshit. Anyone that has used those pads knows they aren’t 0.48. More like starting at 0.58, if not higher. They eat rotors up big time and are light switches. Yes, they even upped the price to $590, from the already insanity price they were before.

thanks for the feedback

 

[tomfree]

*******Fixed...mixed up Raybestos and PFC in my head...

Anybody run the PFC 11 compound? Marketed as a "sprint/medium distance" race compound. PFC is cagey about releasing actual stats on their compounds...all I can find is a graph that makes it look like top of the temp range is 800 deg C, no (biased) CoF info that I can find.

The other interesting option is the new-ish Hawk ER-1 endurance compound which is supposed to behave like an ST-43. Max temp range looks like 1600 deg F (871 C), but suggested operating temp is around 1100 F (593 C). CoF is on a stupid graph...looks like .46 to .50, for what it's worth.

I can't find anyone on here that has run either one, and nobody in my circle of track friends has either.

 

[Rob_SER]

the PFC 11 is quite hard to find and expensive as well. Looked around at a few local shops, none could get their hands on the part number specified on PFC website.

That being said, that's what I ran for 4 years on my GT4 and loved them. Not very noisy, not very dusty, doesn't wear very fast, good modulation, no fade. Only thing I noticed, they were hard on rotors.

 

[tomfree]

the PFC 11 is quite hard to find and expensive as well. Looked around at a few local shops, none could get their hands on the part number specified on PFC website.

That being said, that's what I ran for 4 years on my GT4 and loved them. Not very noisy, not very dusty, doesn't wear very fast, good modulation. Only thing I noticed, they were hard on rotors.

Ah - thanks for the feedback. I think Bimmerworld can get them. Wear characteristics sound like the CSGs, but sound like they give better feel.

 

[Rob_SER]

Ah - thanks for the feedback. I think Bimmerworld can get them. Wear characteristics sound like the CSGs, but sound like they give better feel.

yep almost the only place i found them... But they are twice the price of the Club racers, so I would have liked to try a cheaper option first (like the EBC RPX i've been waiting for 2 months) to compare.

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